In today’s world, companies have a responsibility to ensure their messaging resonates with people from all walks of life. Through targeted campaigns, strategic partnerships, and authentic engagement, the role of PR and marketing extends beyond brand promotion—it becomes a driving force for social progress and equality. In this week’s episode, we cover how brands can effectively engage diverse communities with Michael Kay, Director of Brand Marketing and Communications at Match Group’s ARCHER and OkCupid.
imPRessions Season 2 Episode #11 Transcript
Kalli: Hey, Jenn.
Jenn: Hi.
Kalli: So, question of the day, Jenn: Have you ever used a dating app?
Jenn: So I am probably one of the very, very few people in the entire world that has absolutely never used a dating app in any capacity whatsoever.
Kalli: That doesn’t surprise me, because knowing how you are, you’re like too perfect. And just like, amazing, you attract amazing people naturally. Me, on the other hand…
Jenn: I would not have the energy for it because I have friends that use it and it’s great. Like it’s a great way, like especially if you’re a little bit more introverted and things like that. I think it’s like an amazing way to meet people. And you can also meet friends. It’s not just for romantic relationships. But, I don’t know, I just never put the energy into it. I do know that a lot of them have really brought a lot of amazing people together.
Kalli: Yeah. I mean, actually, I met my husband on a dating app many moons ago, and yes, it took some energy. And definitely, there’s a science to it. When people are dating, they have to be their most true self. So, for today’s episode, we’re actually talking to Michael Kaye at OkCupid to talk about how PR and marketing reach diverse communities. And I thought, what better way to talk about reaching people at their, you know, their truest and most honest selves than with dating?
Jenn: Absolutely. That sounds great. I can’t wait to talk to him.
Kalli: Great. Let’s dive in. Companies have a responsibility to ensure their messaging resonates with people from all walks of life, whether it’s through targeted campaigns, strategic partnerships, or genuine engagement. The impact of PR and marketing extends far beyond mere brand promotion. It can become a catalyst for social progress and equality. Michael Kay, director of brand marketing and communication at Match Group’s Archer and OkCupid and board member of the Impact Communication Institute, joins us today to talk about how to effectively engage diverse communities. Hi, Michael, thank you for joining us today.
Michael: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here, especially as a listener.
Jenn: Of course, we’re so happy you’re here. So we have a lot to talk about. This is a really exciting episode, but before we dive into it, you have quite an extensive background. You’ve worked with so many notable brands. Can you tell us a little bit more about those experiences and how it led you to your current role at Match Group?
Michael: Yes, of course. So in college I studied communications in sociology, and I really loved studying power dynamics and social behaviors and social change. But I always wanted to be a storyteller and writer. I also interned a lot and always felt at home when I was at different communications and public relations firms. So that’s really the avenue I pursued after graduation, and after about five years on the agency side, I was really ready to move in-house. And at the beginning of 2019, I actually got a message from someone I had not met yet on LinkedIn. Her name is Melissa Hobley. She’s currently the Global Chief Marketing Officer at Tinder, but at the time, was the CMO at OkCupid, and she reached out after seeing my agency experience, and my nonprofit experience. I was on the board of the Human Rights Campaign for over five years, and just reading about what I was passionate through my LinkedIn posts, and wanted to see if I’d be open to having a conversation about a role on her team. And admittedly, I had not heard about OkCupid. I had been out of the dating scene for quite some time because I actually met a partner on Tinder, so this really came full circle. And when I started researching the brand, I just fell in love with everything OkCupid stood for. And a few months later, I was hired at OkCupid to lead PR for the United States. And within my first year, I became the Global Head of Communications, Managing PR efforts in six markets across Europe, Asia, and Oceania. Then I started to handle our brand partnerships, influencer marketing, social media, and later became the head of brand for Archer, our new app for gay, bisexual, and queer men, which I know we’re going to dive into a little bit later. And my role has really evolved and expanded as the communications industry matures alongside what we know to be the rapid growth of technology. So when it comes to, you know, when it comes time to determine my next move, and I only say this for anyone listening, I’ll definitely blend communications and marketing.
That’s where this industry is heading. So it’s been really important to me for years to incorporate paid efforts into my scope. Going well beyond earned media, which will always be my true passion.
Kalli: That’s so amazing, and it’s such a great journey. And, you know, for our listeners out there, Michael and I have known each other for quite some time. So it’s been really exciting to follow it and to see everything that you’ve been doing and coming back to OkCupid; it’s, you know, it’s one of the most popular dating sites and really the first to expand available gender and orientation options, which really allows people to express who they truly are when dating and something that’s, you know, really important when you’re looking for a partner. Can you share some of the initiatives OkCupid has implemented to reach underrepresented communities within the online dating sphere?
Michael: Yeah, absolutely. We believe that change starts with conversation, and OkCupid really is a place that fosters connection and conversation. So we have this ideology that we have a responsibility to help drive or support the most important topics for our Gen-Z and millennial daters. For us, that starts with our in-app questions, which have been answered more than 10 billion times since we launched. These questions help daters figure out what’s most important to them so we can match them on what matters to them. But they also help people take a step back and think about an important issue. And it’s also how we connect people we feel would be most compatible. And these questions can also trigger profile badges. So in 2020, the Black Lives Matter movement was really driving some of the most important conversations of our time and continues to do so for our users. We actually rolled out a Black Lives Matter profile badge in over a dozen countries and added a new series of matching questions related to racial equality and justice to encourage conversations between people, which have been answered 5.5 million times already in the last few years. And then we also made donations to ACLU Black Girls Code. Verified action badges for us normally take months and months of planning between the marketing and product teams. You can’t just easily and quickly introduce a brand new feature on an app. But when we saw what was happening across the United States to black people, we dropped everything, and we had this idea on a Tuesday afternoon, and by Thursday morning, this was announced via the press. And the feature was already live within the app. So, the entire company, no matter what team you were on, dropped every single project that was on their plate. And we launched this in less than 72 hours. We also, in that time, consulted with people externally, and started building relationships with different nonprofit organizations like black civil rights organizations specifically. And I just call that out to say we can always come up with a million excuses not to do something when, in reality, we all probably can likely pull the trigger on something very, very, very quickly.
Jenn: Quick action is so important for so many people that companies kind of take this important stance and make a statement and, you know, put the work in to show that they’re aligned with this mission. And I think that’s amazing that your team and the company really pulled together to make that happen. Can you talk a little bit more about the communication strategies that were implemented? OkCupid is one of those companies that ensures there’s inclusive diversity across all communities: gender, ethnicity, cultural identity. So, can you talk a little bit more broader about that initiative and what the company does to get the word out?
Michael: You know, I think it’s really simple. It starts with an inclusive staff. You can’t have all the decision-makers sitting outside of your target audience or demographic. Our pronouns feature was introduced in 2018. We were the first leading dating app to create a space on your profile so that queer people could add their pronouns, and that actually came from an employee who uses they them pronouns and saw a need for it on their dating app. So inclusivity is really at the forefront of our efforts externally via the partners that we choose to work with, which over the years have included ACLU, Glad, Planned Parenthood, the Human Rights Campaign, but also via our actual employees. So I think I think it really goes back to making sure that you have representation across every team at every level, and it’s allowed us to make really impactful, mindful decisions over, over the years.
Kalli: You know, I think that’s so important to really listen directly from people’s mouths and see what it is that they want to hear and what it is that they want to see. And, you know, what are those changes that that need to be made? And having that, you know, a diverse team really lends itself to that because, you know, it’s one thing, like you said, to be outside looking in, but if you’re in it and this is part of your community it’s much more genuine because it’s real. But that kind of leads me to my next question. You know, when you have such a diverse team and you’re reaching out to such a diverse audience, there are bound to be users who have completely different beliefs and values. So, what are some of the biggest challenges that you face when you’re reaching out to users who may have such extreme differences of lifestyles and mindsets?
Michael: This is a question that comes up time and time again, especially for us at OkCupid, because we are a very progressive brand in more than 100 countries around the world. To be honest, there’s just moments when we need to make sacrifices for what we feel is right. We have our own non-negotiables. Our non-negotiables are standing up for black lives, LGBTQ+ rights, and reproductive health care. And we’ve decided as a company, if that’s controversial to you, if that’s offensive to you, we are never going to be the dating app for you. And that’s okay. The work that we’re actually doing is impacting the lives of people that we care about, both on our app and in our company. In our brand campaigns, we celebrate the people and connections that we’re seeing happen every single day on OkCupid. And in 2024, you’re never going to make everyone happy. In fact, in one of our latest brand campaigns, we actually went viral because there was a woman who, on I believe it was the MTA here in New York City, ripped down our ads on the subway yelling that it was propaganda. She actually broke the plastic on the subway and ripped out our posters. And it was a video that went viral on TikTok. And what was such a trigger for her was simply an ad that showed a queer couple. And for us, we said, that’s okay. We’re not ever going to be the dating app for you, and that’s okay. And we decided to use this as a moment to raise awareness for GLAD, which is an incredible LGBTQ+ organization, and use our social platforms to raise funds for them. So that’s the approach that we take. I would say for every brand listening or anyone who’s agency side working on different clients, you have to do what’s right for you. We know that our key stakeholders, our employees and our user base tends to really, truly care about all demographics and full equality. So we lean into that, and that’s something that’s important to us. And we recognize that that is going to alienate a certain user base, but it’s a sacrifice that we’ve decided to make as a company.
Jenn: A Karen is bad enough as it is, but nobody wants a subway Karen. That’s like the final boss level of Karen. And I am so glad that the company handled that so well, because if I saw her on the subway, it would not be good for her.
Kalli: I’m just thinking, what kind of strength must she have had to, like, breakthrough that plastic?
Jenn: She’s final boss Karen!
Kalli: I can’t. You know, like Jenn said, that the response from the company is really amazing and good for you guys and OkCupid for sticking to your guns and not letting somebody like this ruin something that’s so good.
Michael: Absolutely. I mean, we’ve all seen, I won’t name names, but we’ve all seen brands backtrack on the work they put out there and who they’ve partnered with. And it really can destroy you as a brand. So if you’re comfortable putting something out there, whether it’s a statement, or a brand campaign, or an influencer partnership, really stand by who you are and what you believe in.
Jenn: Absolutely. So I want to kind of pivot for a second to not the Karens of the world, but and I’m not saying OkCupid has ever done this, but just from like a general marketing situation. How would a company handle something where maybe their messaging or campaign inadvertently excluded or offended at like a specific demographic? What would you recommend that they would do in that situation to sort of rectify the problem?
Michael: We’ve definitely seen this happen before at other companies, but I do want to say that we’re all going to make mistakes, and it doesn’t mean it doesn’t always mean we are bad people. In the nearly five years I’ve been here at OkCupid, I haven’t really seen us make a mistake like that. But it’s not because we’re flawless or perfect. It’s because we take steps to make space for diverse voices at our table. So I mentioned this a little bit earlier, but we’ve had the ACLU, GLAD, the Human Rights Campaign, NAACP come to our meetings and discuss everything from brand campaigns to product features.
We invite activists, advocates, and experts to our table, and we listen. We truly listen to their feedback and point of views. We’ve pulled brand campaign images before they’ve ever seen the light of day because someone at GLAD or the Human Rights Campaign educated us on something we shouldn’t be doing or something that might be taken the wrong way. And those efforts really help. Because even for me, as an openly gay man, I do not have the same experiences or point of views as everyone within the queer community. We are not a monolith. No group of people are. So, we always take these extra steps before an announcement or launch. And I would say if you get to the point where something goes out and it does offend a group of people, take ownership. I do believe that a genuine apology and an effort to rectify the situation will go such a long way for consumers. I think when brands get into hot water is when they try to ignore the situation, or they divert blame when really all we as consumers want is for you to take accountability and say, “Hey, I messed up, and this is what we’re doing differently to make sure this doesn’t happen again.”
Jenn: Yeah. And there’s a radical difference between and not even just like a company, even like a person saying or doing something just because you’re unaware versus doing something on purpose. My cousin is trans, and I was speaking with another family member the other day and my cousin just recently came out as trans. And when you have like 20-something-year gap of knowing them as one person and then having to, you know, kind of remember…family members that freak out because they’re like, “oh my God, no, I said the wrong name. And I’m like, “it’s okay if you’re just learning, and it’s an accident.” It’s another thing to purposefully use his name, you know? So like, I think it’s the same thing in marketing. If you’re just learning and trying to be better and trying to educate yourself, there is a vast difference between that and a company or a person that just won’t take that into consideration.
Michael: Absolutely. I think the more conversations we’re having, the better each of us are going to be as communicators, as marketers, as people, as friends. So it’s all about that open, transparent dialogue.
Kalli: Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And, you know, talking kind of about a different kind of friendship, you know, between brands. Can you share any partnerships or collaborations that OkCupid has undertaken to reach a broader audience of marginalized consumers that created a positive societal impact?
Michael: OkCupid has always been exclusively inclusive, and we continue to optimize the app every year for all our users because we’re always learning and we’re always facing new challenges. And the consumer base that we have today in 2024 is very different than who was on OkCupid in 2004. I mean, we have as a society really evolved and transformed. So OkCupid was the first major dating app to give users a place to highlight their pronouns. We’ve had almost 2 million straight and queer users proudly displaying their pronouns on their dating profiles to date. And with a lot of these product innovations and advancements, we use that as an opportunity to donate to non-profit organizations who are actually on the ground doing this incredible work day after day and also use our platform to raise awareness of the work that they are doing. So in 2021, we created a dedicated space where our LGBTQ plus users could choose from an expanded list of over 60 identities to signal to other users who they really are and how they identify. And we developed that in consultation with staff and community experts, including the Human Rights Campaign, which is, for anyone who’s unfamiliar, the nation’s largest LGBTQ rights organization. So we had a blog post. We use our social platforms supported with press to talk about this product feature, or really an update to our product. In 2022, we partnered with HRC again. We updated our gender and orientation pages on our app. This was one I was also really, really proud of. We are always interviewing and speaking with different daters both on and off OkCupid, and we started to hear from a lot of our queer daters, especially our non-binary and trans daters, that thank you for offering this. But what’s happening is I’m being matched with people who don’t really understand my identity. And we took a step back and said, you know what? We have the opportunity to be that platform that educates people. So, let’s do that and take the onus off of our users. Another example is in 2021, we reached out to Planned Parenthood, an incredible non-profit organization that provides sexual health care in the United States and globally, and collaborated with them to launch our I’m Pro-Choice profile badge for users who want to show their support of abortion access right on their profile, and we remain committed to leaving this badge up indefinitely, despite badges historically being a temporary feature.
So there’s a lot that we’re doing with nonprofit organizations every single year.
Jenn: Yeah, I love that. And it’s important to also remember that dating apps. And when you’re looking for a partner, right, you’re looking for somebody to spend your life with and looking for your match. Right. So these things are so important because, you know, off the cuff, like where the where this individual stands outside of how good looking they are or how witty, their profile is, they have this badge, and they have these sort of like, marketing tools, like, already embedded in their profile. You know, right off the bat whether or not there’ll be a good match, and I think that’s really important.
Michael: Absolutely. It’s no longer tall, dark, and handsome or a doctor or lawyer. It’s do you vote? And do you believe I should be able to do what I want with my own body?
Jenn: Absolutely. Do we have the same values? That’s it. That’s really, really important. And I’m so glad the company is doing that. And I want to ask something else that the company is doing that’s new and innovative. And I think you briefly talked on it, but last year Match Group had introduced Archer, which is a social first dating experience for gay, bi and queer men. So, can you share a little bit more on what maybe prompted the need for a new app catering to a very specific demographic, and how it’s doing today?
Michael: Yes, absolutely. So match Group and OkCupid leadership team specifically identified a need for the queer male community. When we looked at the biggest dating apps for gay men, they were all created a decade ago with very little innovation since you can have completely blank profiles, which makes it really hard to form any kind of connection, casual or serious. On Archer, every profile is selfie verified, so every profile leads with a face and there’s no blank profiles. When I graduated college ten years ago, I downloaded a few dating apps for the first time. I was not yet out of the closet, and it was my first time proactively looking to meet other gay men, and the options that were available to me were filled with blank profiles, oftentimes without any names or photos. And to me, that reinforced this idea that queer love and connection should remain hidden and secretive. And it was really traumatizing.
So when I first saw the prototype for Archer in the summer of 2022, I couldn’t help but become a little emotional because an app like Archer would have completely changed my life. Archer was created today for today’s gay dater. There’s teams across the company, from data to marketing to product, that are all led by gay men. And I really hope anyone who’s coming to the app sees that and just feels really welcomed and understood, safe, and comfortable.
Kalli: That’s really amazing. I found my husband on a dating app and feeling that safeness and comfort is so important when you’re trying to meet someone. And, you know, obviously, for myself, I was looking for someone that I did want to marry and have a long term relationship with. So it’s heartwarming to know that I’m not the only person that can experience that. Again, that’s an amazing, amazing initiative. I was so excited to hear about it. One other question I had for you, taking a little bit back to more of a broader marketing question. What should PR and marketing professionals think about to ensure that their efforts contribute to meaningful, long-term societal changes for marginalized consumers rather than just, you know, that surface-level engagement?
Michael: Yeah, it’s a great question. And I think this this word is highly overused and cringey. So I am so sorry for using it. But you need to lead with authenticity. These aren’t one-off collaborations. These are true partners who have a seat at our table. Always for Archer we’ve been working with GLAD since before we officially launched, letting their team weigh in on all our marketing and product messaging. They were in all our Google documents. In many ways, I think of each of these people as my own colleagues. I know that there’s someone at GLAD that I can text and get their thoughts on XYZ, making sure that you’re not only giving these people a seat at the table but that it’s a permanent seat and it’s not a conversation you’re having for a couple of weeks and then completely forgetting about it because consumers are smarter than they’ve ever been before. You know, Gen Z especially, they’re doing their research. They’re going to be able to see right through a collaboration or partnership or a statement or anything that is just not authentic. And they’ll know when a company is not doing the work behind the scenes. So I would say really making these experts or organizations or whoever you’re working with, making them true partners and letting them in and letting them be part of your conversation and your meetings all throughout the year, not just during Pride month for queer people, not just during Black History Month for the black community, and so on and so forth.
Jenn: Yeah, absolutely. People, especially nowadays, they are choosing where they shop, you know, what hotel they stay at. Everything that they do is based on “ok, great, the quality of the product is there. But, you know, what’s your stance on sustainability? You know, what are you doing to get back to, you know X community.” So it’s very important. What advice would you give to a company that maybe historically hasn’t been as inclusive and they’re looking to improve their communication efforts? They want to speak to a more diverse audience. What kind of advice would you give them to, you know, get that ball moving?
Michael: We all have to start somewhere. Recognize that you don’t need to know all the answers. You never will. And that’s completely okay. Allocate budget for tapping experts and experts and nonprofit organizations. But I would go back to that original point about, you know, everyone has to start somewhere, and it’s okay if you’ve made a mistake five, ten years ago. It’s okay if you made a mistake five minutes ago. But if you’re really willing to course correct, I think a lot of people would be here cheering you on. And I believe once the top reflects the diversity of our nation, no matter where you are, we’re going to be able to be more genuine, more impactful marketers and storytellers. So I think this accountability piece is really going to impact all of us, but also really help us come out stronger.
Kalli: Agreed 100%. Michael, thank you so much for joining us today to talk about this extremely important topic. It means so much to so many people, so we’re glad that you were able to join us.
Michael: Thank you so much for having me. And also thank you for giving me a platform to talk about all the work that Archer and OkCupid is doing, but also all the incredible nonprofits that we have been working with.
Kalli: Of course, it really is our pleasure. And to all of our listeners out there, be sure to tune in every other Wednesday for new episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. And if there’s someone you want to hear on the show, reach out through social media or email us at imPRessions@pollackgroup.com. We’d love to hear from you.
