In recent years, the PR industry has seen professionals leave the traditional agency world to pursue independent freelancing careers. In today’s episode, Jenn and Kalli sit with renowned journalist, Aly Walansky, to discuss the opportunities and challenges of working with freelancers, how freelancing is reshaping the industry, and what media trends freelancers should be paying closer attention to. There’s a reason she’s the most viewed journalist on Muck Rack. Tune in now!
imPRessions S3 EP 12 Transcript
Kalli
Hi, Jenn.
Jenn
Hey.
Kalli
So, Jenn, are you subscribed to any sub stacks?
Jenn
Oh yeah, yeah. I feel like it’s really important today for PR people to definitely be part of sub stacks, newsletters. We’ve had Peter Shankman on our show, who runs SOS, Qwoted. Definitely a couple of specific PR ones. I know I subscribe, Alice Dubin, shout out to her. Katie Lockhart, a couple of others. They’re fantastic.
Kalli
Yeah, I’ve followed so many and they’ve been so helpful in creating relationships and really getting to know what some other, you know, freelancers are working on, what interests them. So, I’m glad to hear that you also are a subscriber because today we have Ali Walansky, who has a fantastic sub stack, which I’m pretty sure you also follow because we’ve talked about her before.
Jenn
Oh, I do.
Kalli
You know, and things that she’s working on. So, she’s going to join us today actually to talk about, you know, how freelancing has really been shifting not just for journalism, but for PR pros as well.
Jenn
That’s awesome. Yeah. We worked with Aly for one of our clients, and she’s covered us quite a bit. She’s so sweet. She’s so smart. I’m really excited to chat with her.
Kalli
All right, great. Well, let’s get to it. Over the past decade, freelancing has completely reshaped the media world, and it’s starting to do the same for public relations. More journalists than ever are building independent careers, launching newsletters and working directly with brands, while PR professionals are stepping away from agency life to carve out freelance careers of their own. Our guest today has experienced this shift firsthand. Aly Walansky has built a successful freelance writing career and now connects with over 10,000 media professionals daily through her Substack newsletter. Her work sits at the intersection of journalism, PR, and freelancing, giving her a unique perspective on how these industries are evolving together. Today, we’ll dive into how freelancing is changing the way PR pros and journalists work, the benefits and challenges of working with freelancers versus agencies, and what both sides need to understand to better build relationships in 2025 and beyond. Hi Aly. So excited to chat with you today.
Aly
Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Jenn
Well, this is really a pleasure. I know Kalli and I follow all of your work. I’m sure a lot of our listeners do. Before we kind of dive into the newer stuff, we know that you’ve built an incredible career writing for outlets like Food Network, Forbes Travel and Leisure just to name a few. Can you tell us how you got started in your career?
Aly
Sure. So, I was a journalism major in college and then right out of college, I went into more like copy editing and proofreading and line edits at a children’s educational book publishing house. And then I got laid off after a couple of years and I decided until I got my next quote, “real job” to freelance, which at the time I didn’t even know what the word freelance meant. I just knew that I was writing to a bunch of editors and asking if I could write for them. And I never looked back, and now I would never like want to have a staff job.
Kalli
So, Aly, you work with a lot of freelancers. Do you think it’s become the new standard in journalism, and possibly even in PR?
Aly
Oh, absolutely. So, I’ve been a freelancer for about 20 years, and I would say a lot of my journalist friends are also freelancers and a lot of my close PR friends are freelancers. And I think at a time where, let’s face it, both of our industries have all kinds of turmoil. And it’s very stressful and a lot of people are seeing downsizing and publications folding, the ultimate job security is in having 12 jobs and freelancing at the end of the day is that. If one outlet dries up, you have your others. So, I think a lot of us are freelancing as a form of self protection to stay in the game.
Jenn
Yeah, absolutely. Even like some PR people like myself, I haven’t done it in a while, but early on in my career I was also freelance writing. I was reporting while I was also doing PR, for I was only writing for a very specific, 2 very specific publications so there wasn’t crossover or anything like that. But it’s so true because it really is becoming the new landscape today. People are no longer even like some top journalists that I’ve worked with in the past have, are no longer working for Wall Street Journal, they’re working wherever and kind of just have their hands in in many different baskets, which I think makes it a little bit more interesting and unique it might not sometimes feel the most secure from a job security standpoint, but to your point, if you have 5 different publications as opposed to 1, you can make it work.
Aly
Yeah, absolutely. And I think also, but I mean the downside is it is a more crowded field right now because you know, because a lot of publications are downsizing and folding all those people who were in the staff editor position or the staff writer position are now also in the freelancer pool. So, we do have a little bit of a new normal as well.
Jenn
Yeah. And from a PR perspective, there are a lot of PR freelancers too. My brother actually kind of started as that and sort of built his own, his own thing. So, he’s able to kind of pick and choose his clients and we see that across all of marketing. But I’m curious from your perspective, Aly, I know that you work with PR freelancers, you work with agency PR professionals. What are some of the differences and some of the benefits of maybe working with a freelancer over, say, your standard traditional PR agency?
Aly
I feel like when you work with PR freelancers they have a unique interest in maintaining the personal relationship between the journalists and the publicist because they don’t have the larger umbrella of the agency to back them up. They are out there working for themselves, building connections and relationships for themselves, and they only have themselves to fall back on. So, because of that, they put a lot more, or at least the good ones try to, into developing that media relationship so that you’ll be able to work together on assignments, you know, as your clients change, as their outlets change. But also, you could have a long term relationship where you’ll be there for each other and look out for each other. Like I get emails every single day asking to refer, you know, good PR leads to me and my PR friends all the time are finding out about people who need writers. So, like because we’re both working for ourselves, we’re always trying to support one another in that way.
Kalli
You know, it’s so interesting that you, you know, talking about all the relationships you have. And in case people don’t know your sub stack newsletter reaches 10,000, maybe professionals every day, which is completely amazing. You know, like, like Jenn said before, she and I are definitely two of those 10,000 because you’re providing such great content and really building a community. So, I’m just kind of wondering how has the sub stack changed the way that you know PR pros are pitching you and, you know, trying to build relationships?
Aly
It’s changed so much. So, I started my sub stack about 3 years ago and the impetus for that was I was pretty laughing, getting emails from publicists asking if I had a distribution list for my calls for sources, and I didn’t at the time and I didn’t entirely understand the need for it. If I had something I needed, I would, you know, post to Facebook groups or call for sources on like, Twitter or HARO or something. And then I realized everyone has like their hands all over the place. Wouldn’t it make it so much easier for them if I could stick everything I need in one e-mail and it just pops into their inbox every morning and they can read it if they want, they could not read it if they want, but it’s right there? So, I decided to put my calls for sources in there, my recently published stories, because I’m constantly getting emails asking if things published, but then also things that were serviceable in other ways. So, job leads, industry commentary about like events and pitches and mailers I got recently that could be potentially teaching moments, and it’s changed everything. It’s so much easier to source for stories, especially those quick turnaround assignments I often get. It’s made an amazing and it’s made everything feel a lot more community driven and person. We do webinars and workshops and I just did a town hall for my subscribers yesterday and it’s really made everything feel like we’re in this together and I love that so much.
Jenn
It’s such a great community, I know that we’ve been part of it and it really is helpful and such a unique way to break through in a, in a field that’s constantly evolving, you know, we have to evolve with the changes and it’s one great thing about PR is that it does kind of change with the times. So, I think that the sub stack newsletter, and I know you’re one of the many that have adapted to this, have really helped us. It has helped you work better and more seamlessly. So, definitely to our listeners if you are not subscribing, you need to. It will completely change how you do PR it gives you so many tips and tricks, it gives you media opportunities, the works. So, it’s definitely something that we highly recommend. I want to ask your opinion just from a PR perspective because I like to ask a lot of journalists and PR people this question because everybody has a different answer and it’s just very unique in the field that we work in. In your opinion, what do PR people get wrong when they’re working with freelance journalists and what do they get right?
Aly
So, I definitely experience very often. I think that publicists, when they pitch me, they think that I could just decide to write about something or decide not to. And yes, I could obviously decide not to pitch a story, but I could think something is the best idea ever and desperately want to write about it. But if I pitch my editor and they’re not into it, my hands are tied. And I think there’s a little bit of that disconnect that on a high level, a lot of it is out of my control and I’m waiting on a response to my pitch in the same way that they are. And I know that’s frustrating because they want, they want to know what’s happening and I love and I’m like, I don’t know, I pitched 3 editors. They haven’t answered me. That happens to me also. So, I think that’s something that publicists don’t really always understand about freelancers, that we’re kind of sailing in the winds also hoping for the best. I think what they get right though is understanding because we’re freelancers and because we’re not tied to one beat or one publication, we order, we offer like a greater range of what you could pitch us. Like, yeah, you could pitch me stuff like I predominantly write about food and travel, but I’ve written in the last couple of months about Wellness, about, you know relationships. So, I think that we offer a greater range of being able to cover your clients, but at the same time, we can’t just choose to, it has to be you know open to us.
Kalli
You know, that’s such a great point, Aly. And I know even in my experience working with freelance writers, you know that’s 100% true, but you, you know, as long as you think that it’s in someone’s wheelhouse or like something that they would really like, you know it does it is a lot nicer and the sometimes the relationships you do become a lot better because you actually are getting to know the writer and see really what they’re interested in, whereas you know a lot of times with writers that are tied to a publication or tied to a certain beat, you know, similarly, their hands are also tied because they might like what you’re doing, but there’s no outlet for them to do that, like to write about it or to pitch it to their editors.
Aly
Yeah, very often. Like you know, I’ll have friends that are invited on press trips or to dinners or whatever, and they’ll be like, well, I’d love to do that. But, you know, I just can’t cover it. It’s not in, you know, the wheelhouse of what my specific job role is. And I guess that’s the better thing about being a jack of all trades is that I could pitch anywhere of any topic, assuming I have a contact and a responsive editor there.
Kalli
Exactly and, you know, kind of on the flip side, you know what should freelance PR professionals know about working with the, you know, media that they kind of would have otherwise learned if they were at an agency or in house.
Aly
I think it’s really good for them to learn that you have to play the long game versus the short game. For instance, if that freelance publicist or an agency publicist, but I feel like an agency publicist, they have, like learned this, you know, from their supervisors, they pitched me pink martini glasses today. I’m not working on anything to do with pink martini glasses today. It’s none of my assignments. But maybe a month from now I’ll get an assignment on a tie to Mother’s Day. I could go back to my inbox, search that phrase and find their pitch, and I’ll write about it then and that could happen in six months. There’s been times I wrote about something a year after it was pitched. So just because something isn’t an immediate hit today or tomorrow, it’s not a rejection, it just means you have to, you know, play the long game. I think that’s something very important to learn and remember.
Jenn
Yeah. And as a PR person, I’ve had journalists come to me about a year later to write something, so it definitely isn’t far-fetched for that to happen. Unfortunately, our clients don’t always see it that way. You know, and sometimes you might not be working with that client in a year from now or so, so, you know, it is what it is but yeah, I think that’s definitely something that’s really important to note.
Kalli
Yeah and it’s actually really funny that you bring that you’ve said that because literally last night I was at a client event and I’ve been trying to get a reporter, like that we’ve been going back and forth to come and meet the client. They had, the client had an event last night and literally originally the reporter was like I’m, you know, sorry I you know, I have to miss it. In the afternoon we connected, you know about the event about what was going on and they ended up coming, interviewing everybody. It was so great and this was months in the making and it was you know building that relationship and even though, you know, like you said, it wasn’t, nothing was happening with it. It was just, you know, check-ins like, hey, here’s an update. What are you working on? And it never turned into anything. And like, hopefully, at this point should turn into something. But you know, it’s really like you said, it’s about that long game because it is about building a relationship. And even if you think about even in terms of, let’s say, you’re dating, you’re not, the day that you make the plan to go on a date doesn’t mean that you’re married the next day.
Aly
Right, exactly.
Kalli
You know, it’s really the same thing. And I know that’s obviously a very extreme example of it but…
Jenn
Tell that to 90-Day Fiancé.
Kalli
Exactly. You have to remember that. And it’s funny. A lot of the new generation coming in, they’re like, oh, well, they didn’t answer. I’m not gonna keep, you know, I’m not gonna keep following up. It’s like, no, you have to keep building that relationship. You need to keep following up. You need to keep offering value and really getting someone to trust you and to trust what you’re talking about and you trusting them as well to continue the relationship on their side.
Aly
Absolutely. And you know what? Even if they do write about it like the next day, I had gotten an assignment that was like a tested roundup of black teas, like, less, less. I’m full. It was like all kind of, like, you know, loose leaf tea. And, like, you know, tea bags and everything. I had to like, you know, try and review and write about this whole big like 5000 word story that included like 12 different brands. It didn’t publish until a month ago and it had nothing to do with me or the deadline. It was just, you know, it wasn’t exactly time sensitive, so it got pushed back a little bit. And I think that it’s important to remember that like, sometimes I get emails like, hey, this ever publish. And I was like, well, this, I don’t know. I mean, I know when the when it goes live. They don’t know what’s going to happen in the interim, so it is the long game in that way also.
Jenn
Yeah, and we you know, we try to tell like our junior staff, working with journalists is kind of like working, it’s kind of like a friendship. If you’re constantly calling your friend asking for favors, asking them to help you move, asking them to do XYZ. Eventually that friend’s gonna stop picking up the phone. So, it’s very similar when you’re when you’re PR working with journalists. You, it’s a give and take. Yeah. You want journalists to cover your story but you also have to put time into them. You have to know what they cover. You have to be patient. And you can’t just expect, you know, one pitch to go out and then just to cover it because you asked, there’s a lot of things that are beyond our control and editors and other people that are involved with things. So yeah. And we’ve said this so many times on the podcast and have talked to so many people in the field and can’t reiterate it enough. Like journalists are people. And if you want to build a relationship, you have to build a relationship. You can’t just send out a pitch and think, oh this, this journalist knows me now. About Aly, how many pitches do you get a day?
Aly
It depends on if it’s holiday gift-guide season or regular, but I average between 500 to 800 emails a day every single day. Yeah, and I’m not gonna lie. I don’t answer them all, but I do try to at least open them all. And so, I’m always like trying to give guidance in like, my newsletter. Like, this is how to write your pitch. So, like, the info is top-heavy. So people, they’re skimming it will see it or have a really strong subject line. But yeah, there’s so many emails and people can’t answer them, you know, entirely, but you’re right. Like we could always tell when a relationship is transactional versus reciprocal, and it matters. Like take the moment to you see on social media that it’s a journalist that you work with’s birthday, like, wish them happy birthday. It takes 10 seconds out of your life, and it shows that you’re a person and they’re a person too. And that matters.
Jenn
Absolutely. If you see a journalist wrote something, even if you don’t have a client or the industry that goes with it, they just happen to like it. Just tell them, tell them, hey, I really like this piece. It goes such a long way. It’s nice to be appreciated.
Aly
Very much like I had a friend that she had mentioned in her Substack that like, you know, she lives in LA and the wildfires are going on. And like, you know, she was like not displaced, but close to it. And like, she was getting responses to the e-mail. They were like, hey, yo, so just following up on the sample I sent last week. And it’s just like, are you kidding? Like, take a moment to be a person and see how I’m doing and like it doesn’t matter if it’s an event like that or a health issue, or like what. It’s like, care about people.
Kalli
It goes back to it’s a relationship. And if you’re in this industry or even, I mean look in any industry. But especially in this one like, everyone here, we’re all people. We’re all, you know, trying to make it work. Trying to do our thing. And you have to be respectful of that and be respectful of the people part of it too. Feel like we’re to change it to instead of media relations to people relations.
Aly
Yeah. I mean, yeah, at the end of the day, we all work in communication and we all have to be good communicators.
Jenn
Yeah, yeah. Everything goes a long way. Well, I think we kind of touched a little bit on it, but I was actually going to ask you, Aly, how do you feel the relationship between journalists and PR pros have changed in the last few years? Do you have any other trends that you are seeing? I mean obviously social media has given more of a way to build that relationship so, honestly, PR people have no excuse today. This isn’t 1970 where you had to pick up the phone and hope someone picked up or sent out a mailer. I mean, they’re, everybody is digitally at your fingertips. But how else do you think that the relationship has changed?
Aly
I mean, I think it definitely did become more social media centric in several ways. Like if you look Pre 2020, I was constantly being asked like do you want to get a drink, do you want to get a coffee? I totally was into that and I’m still into that. But I think during the pandemic when we couldn’t do that, we suddenly invented the virtual cocktail or the virtual coffee and that has not gone away. And I think it’s a great idea because for me, as an example, I live in Brooklyn. I live like 45 minutes away from the city. If I want to meet you for a coffee or a martini, I have to figure in like, an hour, be together an hour each way. OK, so this is 3 hours out of my time. But if I meet you on zoom for a coffee for 1/2 hour or for like a virtual lunch date. I could log on 5 minutes before I have to be there. I think we learned that that’s an option when we had no other option and now we’ve maintained that option and I think that’s a change and I love it and I always recommend you know, doing that to get to know people better. And you could do that. You don’t have to be in their town doing editor meetings deskside, you could be in Chicago meeting someone in Florida. I think that’s an awesome idea, but I think that also it’s changed because of stuff like, yeah, I’m one of many that have sub stacks and it’s a way of getting to know each other personally. I think everything’s become a lot more intimate because I think that the pandemic has taught us that it’s a big world that’s actually a small world.
Kalli
You know, that’s so true and you know, I have to say, I personally really love the virtual, my virtual dates, because, like you said, with the pandemic, like I was at home. And even now, like I, I still work. I’m home a lot of the time. And I have two small kids. So, it’s like the travel plus figuring out childcare and having those virtual dates. Like, I’m still able to get that, you know, that one-on-one time that I was getting before the pandemic with, you know, immediate contacts that you weren’t able to before and again, you’re able to get that time with people that are not in your area as well. So it’s, I actually think that’s been a really nice thing. You know, I’m wondering kind of what other media trends do you think that PR pros should be paying attention to, you know, now in, you know, in 2025 and beyond.
Aly
I think that, you know, sadly, because a lot of people are, you know, interested in like, you know, affiliate stuff and you know that has like made everything very round up centric versus like introspective like full on review like you know when I started writing I was a beauty editor at first and if I was writing a story about red lipsticks that didn’t fade or bleed or whatever, I would be trying on red lipsticks all day in my bathroom. That’s what I would be doing. Now I’m going on Amazon and looking for who has the five-star reviews and the most ratings, so I think it’s definitely changed. Unfortunately, the focus of a lot of journalists, as far as you know what they think makes a good story and also what they’re looking for in a good story. And I think that’s, you know, a problem. And it’s a downgrade to our industry, but it also helps you shape how to pitch them.
Jenn
Yep, that’s great advice. I want to talk a little bit about carving out this unique space again in a crowded industry because I just think it’s so important and it’s so unique. What advice do you have for other writers or other PR professionals? Really, anybody that’s looking to stand out because I know we talked a little bit about PR people needing to stand out, right? You have to write a great pitch and you have to have a catchy subject line and you have to be friendly. And make relationships. But writers have their share of things that they need to do as well. That’s what makes it a relationship in this industry. So, what advice do you have for people starting out or people who are just not really sure to take the next step to kind of differentiate themselves?
Aly
I think right there is like if they’re just starting out as a writer, make sure to not only share their own stories across social media and everything I write, I share on my Instagram stories and everywhere else. But also look for people that are either, that are doing the same sort of writing they are, or if you’re a publicist pitching it, look for writers that write about that and follow them. Like the stories that have nothing to do with you, like, just like you were saying, like, just, you know, establish yourself as a part of that world and just keep at it. I think that’s how you establish yourself in there. You have to be a visible point. The Internet is full of a lot of people and everyone’s making a lot of noise and everyone thinks that they’re a lot more important than they are. So just stay part of the conversation.
Kalli
That’s such great advice, you know, especially in today’s world, freelancing really is becoming a bigger part of, you know, not only journalism but also public relations. And, you know, this conversation I think really gave a front row seat to how those worlds are blending and shifting and really creating new opportunities for storytellers on both sides. So, Aly thank you so much for joining us and sharing these insights on what it takes to stand out and build meaningful relationships as we’re navigating our ever-changing landscape. And to our listeners, make sure you’re following us on social media and catching new episodes every other Wednesday. If you want to connect, pitch us an idea, you know where to find us. Impressions@pollockgroup.com. Until next time.
